patched by FShadow and Rolen47 and then updated by Wyrdgirn
I figure you could just say these are patch updates, but where is the line here? When someone takes a patched game and works on it further, where is the line being drawn?
I wouldn't expect someone else to re-code the game from scratch again, there'd be no point because the source for the patched SGGG is now public.
But if someone goes back over the text; I'd call that just an update because they are not doing the re-coding work again.
Maybe I was a bit too harsh right away, but I do feel very strongly about not diminishing the work done here on the code in getting it to a state so it can be worked on with relative ease.
@Sketcz I know who you are, and the books like the untold story of Japanese game development which you've written which I personally really liked.
But that doesn't change the fact that you have grossly mis-judged SGGG.
There is a number of reasons.
1) Mass machine translation using AI is still relatively new, and people hate it. Which is understandable as it gets so much wrong. I don't think people will look at the SGGG translation in the same way as a fan translation effort, and will still count it as "untranslated".
2) Translation was not the barrier here. it's not like this project hasn't been attempted before by lots of people that want to do it justice. The issue has been the games code made traditional translation via decompiling almost impossible.
Well this team has beaten that. THAT is the achievement here. The achievement, is NOT that the game is in English. The achievement is that the code has been adapted and the source is now open for any translation team to take it up.
What has really pissed me off is that people have looked at this and said "AI played a part and so the whole thing is bad".
That is a really ***** way to treat the remarkable work of these coders.
3) Re-translations happen. And they happen when people are not happy with the English version. Regardless is it's a commercial release or not. If people are not happy with what is on offer, it'll get done.
As far as most people are concerned SGGG is now ready for a translation team to be picked up. Because without a talented coding team to rip the game up and put it up together, a translation would never happen at all.
We no longer have to sit and wait for Hilltop to sort it out, any translation team can get this done now.
This took me 5 seconds. I could probably find a ton more if I actually bothered the search through romhacking.net
I like the way that once you called out, all of a sudden you need to move the goal posts. But what your opinion doesn't equal fact. The fact is people all the time take games that are already in English, but translate them again so they are closer to the original script.
But you fail to give the team on SGGG credit for even making it possible, because you clearly don't understand that translation was not the hurdle that held this game back for so many years.
Why do you think so many attempts were made but failed?
It's not because they didn't have the passion, or the ability to translation Japanese. It's because they didn't have the ability to completely re-code huge chunks of the game.
But because of the AI boogie man, you are prepared to ignore the actual hard work that needed to be done to even make an English translation even possible in the first place.
@Sketcz you simply have no knowledge about what you are talking about, and can be proven incorrect with the most basic of research.
Your core argument is that now no one will touch this.
Give me one example where that has ever happened. Because it never has.
But if you’d like a 1000 examples of people being unhappy with other people’s translation efforts and then having a go themselves then head on over to the fan translation website for more examples than you can count.
Your argument is worse than a strawmsn because it’s so easily debunked.
@Sketcz You realise they posted the source code to all their work right?
Do you also understand that the problem with an English translation of SGGG was never changing the Japanese into English, it was the text box programming and character set issue.
you couldn't fit an English version of the text in to the boxes provided, and the way it was coded didn't allow for a greater number of boxes to be added.
You are completely ignorant to what has been achieved here, they have ripped the code apart, re-written huge chunks of it, and then managed to sew it back up again.
Clearly this teams strength was in coding, but that was what was required to even make an English translation viable.
So now, someone else can come along and just change the text to be closer to the Japanese original, but all the problems that held translations back for so many years are removed.
1) The backgrounds make the common homebrew mistake of standing out too much. Look at most classic 16-bit shooters and you'll notice that the backgrounds are either darker tones or duller colours. If this isn't done then everything starts looking messy when bullets start flying everywhere.
2) No PlayStation version?!? It's on Xbox, but no PlayStation version?!? What the hell is that?
@slider1983 Yeah but the gap difference we are talking about here is totally different.
The Saturn was weaker at 3D compared to PlayStation, so the same game would run 5-10fps slower on Sega's machine.
The difference between the CD32 couldn't even hope to run anything the other two were running, and in most cases CD32 games were lower quality than the SNES
@Tasuki Either you don't watch WWE or you have poor taste.
Cody is a fantastic choice for Guile; in fact I'd argue that WWE wrestlers are a good choice in general for a movie like this as they have the background in performance, the look, and are able to actually do the fight scenes.
This sucks and I've reached out to Dan to offer some advise (I've done a few little voice over parts for him in the past).
I think another issue that this brings to life is that Google AI is scanning EVERYTHING you upload to Google Drive and probably training it's AI software on OUR personal files.
So if no matter if it's a personal or professional account you save your personal photos too, chances are they are being used to train its Gemini AI software which is just wrong.
Back in the day the X68000 had fantasic arcade conversions and some brilliant Japanese text heavy games.
But now, the conversions are pointless because of MAME and unless they are going to provide translation patched games then the whole thing is pointless.
Comments 58
Re: English Translation Of Cult Dreamcast RPG SEGAGAGA Is Complete, But There's A Catch
@Sketcz There is also the Idol Master:
https://retrogametalk.com/repo/psp/the-idolmster-sp-missing-moon-english-patched-jpn/
Patched by TLWiki.org and then again by BonillaP
Also you have Project Diva:
https://retrogametalk.com/repo/psp/hatsune-miku-project-diva-english-patched/
patched by FShadow and Rolen47 and then updated by Wyrdgirn
I figure you could just say these are patch updates, but where is the line here? When someone takes a patched game and works on it further, where is the line being drawn?
I wouldn't expect someone else to re-code the game from scratch again, there'd be no point because the source for the patched SGGG is now public.
But if someone goes back over the text; I'd call that just an update because they are not doing the re-coding work again.
Maybe I was a bit too harsh right away, but I do feel very strongly about not diminishing the work done here on the code in getting it to a state so it can be worked on with relative ease.
Re: English Translation Of Cult Dreamcast RPG SEGAGAGA Is Complete, But There's A Catch
@Sketcz I know who you are, and the books like the untold story of Japanese game development which you've written which I personally really liked.
But that doesn't change the fact that you have grossly mis-judged SGGG.
There is a number of reasons.
1) Mass machine translation using AI is still relatively new, and people hate it. Which is understandable as it gets so much wrong.
I don't think people will look at the SGGG translation in the same way as a fan translation effort, and will still count it as "untranslated".
2) Translation was not the barrier here. it's not like this project hasn't been attempted before by lots of people that want to do it justice. The issue has been the games code made traditional translation via decompiling almost impossible.
Well this team has beaten that. THAT is the achievement here. The achievement, is NOT that the game is in English. The achievement is that the code has been adapted and the source is now open for any translation team to take it up.
What has really pissed me off is that people have looked at this and said "AI played a part and so the whole thing is bad".
That is a really ***** way to treat the remarkable work of these coders.
3) Re-translations happen. And they happen when people are not happy with the English version. Regardless is it's a commercial release or not. If people are not happy with what is on offer, it'll get done.
As far as most people are concerned SGGG is now ready for a translation team to be picked up. Because without a talented coding team to rip the game up and put it up together, a translation would never happen at all.
We no longer have to sit and wait for Hilltop to sort it out, any translation team can get this done now.
Re: English Translation Of Cult Dreamcast RPG SEGAGAGA Is Complete, But There's A Catch
@Sketcz Name 5?
Phantasy Star (SMS) https://retrogametalk.com/repo/sms_roms/phantasy-star-retranslation-english-patched/
Puyo Pop Fever (GBA) https://retrogametalk.com/repo/gba-roms/puyo-pop-fever-retranslation-japan/
Mega Man X4 (PS1) https://retrogametalk.com/repo/psx2psp-eboots/mega-man-x4-undub/
Sonic Battle (GBA) https://retrogametalk.com/repo/gba-roms/sonic-battle-retranslated-shc2025/
Assault Suit Leynos (MD) https://retrogametalk.com/repo/sega_genesis_roms/target-earth-assault-suit-leynos-usa-jpn/
This took me 5 seconds. I could probably find a ton more if I actually bothered the search through romhacking.net
I like the way that once you called out, all of a sudden you need to move the goal posts. But what your opinion doesn't equal fact. The fact is people all the time take games that are already in English, but translate them again so they are closer to the original script.
But you fail to give the team on SGGG credit for even making it possible, because you clearly don't understand that translation was not the hurdle that held this game back for so many years.
Why do you think so many attempts were made but failed?
It's not because they didn't have the passion, or the ability to translation Japanese. It's because they didn't have the ability to completely re-code huge chunks of the game.
But because of the AI boogie man, you are prepared to ignore the actual hard work that needed to be done to even make an English translation even possible in the first place.
I'll accept your apology now.
Re: English Translation Of Cult Dreamcast RPG SEGAGAGA Is Complete, But There's A Catch
@slider1983 oh that wasn’t aimed at Damian, rather the people that post on Bluesky.
A ripoff twitter that allows people that even musk wouldn’t allow
Re: English Translation Of Cult Dreamcast RPG SEGAGAGA Is Complete, But There's A Catch
@Sketcz you simply have no knowledge about what you are talking about, and can be proven incorrect with the most basic of research.
Your core argument is that now no one will touch this.
Give me one example where that has ever happened. Because it never has.
But if you’d like a 1000 examples of people being unhappy with other people’s translation efforts and then having a go themselves then head on over to the fan translation website for more examples than you can count.
Your argument is worse than a strawmsn because it’s so easily debunked.
Re: "I'm Just Enjoying Building Software With Those New Tools" - Yaba Sanshiro Dev Credits AI With Saturn Emulator's Renewed Momentum
@Z-GRADT Clearly you actually know what you are talking about.
Unlike many of the AI cry babies you see online.
Re: "This Remake Is Just Soulless" - Early Impressions Of The NewZealand Story Untold Adventure Aren't Looking Good
The moment this was revealed it looked like a flash game.
No one wanted that style, and who ever thought that was a good idea simply doesn't understand this generation of games.
Re: English Translation Of Cult Dreamcast RPG SEGAGAGA Is Complete, But There's A Catch
@Sketcz You realise they posted the source code to all their work right?
Do you also understand that the problem with an English translation of SGGG was never changing the Japanese into English, it was the text box programming and character set issue.
you couldn't fit an English version of the text in to the boxes provided, and the way it was coded didn't allow for a greater number of boxes to be added.
You are completely ignorant to what has been achieved here, they have ripped the code apart, re-written huge chunks of it, and then managed to sew it back up again.
Clearly this teams strength was in coding, but that was what was required to even make an English translation viable.
So now, someone else can come along and just change the text to be closer to the Japanese original, but all the problems that held translations back for so many years are removed.
People like you don't deserve translations.
Re: English Translation Of Cult Dreamcast RPG SEGAGAGA Is Complete, But There's A Catch
If you complain about AI then go on to post on BlueSky then you are a complete hypocrite.
Although if you post on Bluesky you might be something much worse than that.....
Re: Community Challenge: How Fast Are You On Ridge Racer's Most Difficult Course?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iFGfAYNt1KI - Best in the world baby!
Re: Romhack.ing's BlueSky Account Gets Suspended Over Cookie's Bustle English Patch
Not a fan of Bluesky, when you're allowing people that even Twitter has banned - that's not something I want to be anywhere near.
Re: Reports Suggest Arcade1Up Is Shutting Down
@jtotal Imgur is blocked in the UK. I blame Keir Stalin
Re: Koei's Obscure PC-98 Space Adventure 'Progenitor' Is Now Available In English
Big fan of seeing more PC-98 games
Re: One Of The Best Modern Sega Mega Drive / Genesis Shmups Is Getting Another Cartridge Release This Month
@turboxray There are two major failings with ZPF.
1) The backgrounds make the common homebrew mistake of standing out too much. Look at most classic 16-bit shooters and you'll notice that the backgrounds are either darker tones or duller colours. If this isn't done then everything starts looking messy when bullets start flying everywhere.
2) No PlayStation version?!? It's on Xbox, but no PlayStation version?!? What the hell is that?
Re: Limited Run Games Is Bringing The Console Ports Of Toaplan's Arcade Classic 'Snow Bros.' To PC, PS5, & Switch
Limited Run?
The discs will arive sometime around 2042
Re: "It Should Have Been Ours" - Street Fighter 2 Was Supposed To Be A TurboGrafx-16 Exclusive, Claims Former TTI President
Hold on a moment....
@Guru_Larry and myself did an episode of fact hunt where TTI claimed to have almost had to exclusive rights to Mortal Kombat!
I have a feeling that this Street Fighter 2 story is *****
Re: Retroid Confirms Rapper Soulja Boy "Does Not Have Permission" To Rebrand And Sell Its Handhelds
Flipping the flip
Re: After More Than Half A Decade Of Hype, Sonic Has Finally Arrived On The GX4000 & Amstrad Plus
@JackGYarwood it looks like it’s actually based on the Game Gear version.
The resolution seems the match the GG, and details like signs warning the player of spike pits are a feature only found in the GG version
Re: "We're Getting Closer To Our Goal" - Fan Translation Of Suda51's PS1 Horror 'Moonlight Syndrome' Gets Promising Update
That header image was carefully decided by the writer.
Re: The Composer Of Gimmick! Has Passed Away At The Age of 62
Shame. Gimmick is a great game.
Re: "I Hope Elon Musk Never Googles Me, Because I'll Be Murdered", Says Deus Ex Co-Writer
@Razieluigi The whole opinion of Austin Grossman just seems like typical media bait.
It's hey guys, that guy you don't like, well I don't like him either; and I made a video game you like!
That's the whole article.
It doesn't matter if you like Elon or not, there is nothing here
Re: "I Hope Elon Musk Never Googles Me, Because I'll Be Murdered", Says Deus Ex Co-Writer
Elon bad, buy my product.
Re: Commodore's Ill-Fated Amiga CD32 Is Getting Another Chance To Shine Via This "Plug And Play" Mini Console
@slider1983 Yeah but the gap difference we are talking about here is totally different.
The Saturn was weaker at 3D compared to PlayStation, so the same game would run 5-10fps slower on Sega's machine.
The difference between the CD32 couldn't even hope to run anything the other two were running, and in most cases CD32 games were lower quality than the SNES
Re: Commodore's Ill-Fated Amiga CD32 Is Getting Another Chance To Shine Via This "Plug And Play" Mini Console
@slider1983 I don't think the Saturn was under powered at all.
It was a 2D power house and showcased the best home ports of the time for many great Capcom games.
Even it's 3D ablity was good when used by Sega themselves. But that's a case of Sega not giving out decent dev tool libaries.
Re: Commodore's Ill-Fated Amiga CD32 Is Getting Another Chance To Shine Via This "Plug And Play" Mini Console
@slider1983 potential to do what?
It was woefully under powered compared to systems already available and everyone and their dog knew it would be crushed by the Saturn and PlayStation
Re: Commodore's Ill-Fated Amiga CD32 Is Getting Another Chance To Shine Via This "Plug And Play" Mini Console
The CD32 doesn't deserve another chance. It was awful.
Re: BBC Recently Covered The Rise Of Retro Gaming - See If You Can Spot The Problem
@KociolekDoSyta Jim'll Fix It - DVD Special edition
Re: WWE's Cody Rhodes Has Reportedly Been Added To The Street Fighter Movie Cast
@Tasuki Either you don't watch WWE or you have poor taste.
Cody is a fantastic choice for Guile; in fact I'd argue that WWE wrestlers are a good choice in general for a movie like this as they have the background in performance, the look, and are able to actually do the fight scenes.
Re: WWE's Cody Rhodes Has Reportedly Been Added To The Street Fighter Movie Cast
Sthonic Boom!
Re: "Missing" Genesis Beat 'Em Up Paprium Is Finally Playable Under Emulation
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gaec23RKxfw
HEY FONZIE! Here's the ROM and the Custom core!
SUCK IT!
Re: Hands On: 30 Years On, DOOM's "Super FX 3" Upgrade Gives SNES Players A More Polished Way To Rip And Tear
Nice, but I don't trust anything from Limited Run Games
Re: "We Have Some Difficult News To Share" - Microsoft Kills Off John Romero's Upcoming FPS Title
I hate Microsoft
Re: "I Am Petrified" - Retro Gaming YouTube Channel Slope's Game Room Is At Risk Of Deletion
This sucks and I've reached out to Dan to offer some advise (I've done a few little voice over parts for him in the past).
I think another issue that this brings to life is that Google AI is scanning EVERYTHING you upload to Google Drive and probably training it's AI software on OUR personal files.
So if no matter if it's a personal or professional account you save your personal photos too, chances are they are being used to train its Gemini AI software which is just wrong.
Re: The VGHF Is Set To Dump 125 Mystery Prototype ROMs Live On Stream
I did a dump on stream once.
I got banned from Twitch.
Re: Polymega's Next Module Plays Atari 2600 And 7800 Games
I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again.
There is nothing worth playing anymore on either the 2600 or the 7800
Even though I remember them when they were new, they have aged far too poorly to of any worth now
Re: The Classic ZX Spectrum Series 'Magic Knight' Is Getting A New Reissue To Celebrate 40 Years
Red Herring.
Nothing to see here.
Re: Namco's Unported Arcade Classic 'NebulasRay' Gets Its Console Debut And A Steep Price Point
@Fallingshadow I'm fine with that.
To me, it's still a good price because I like the game so much.
Re: Boku no Natsuyasumi 2 & Racing Lagoon Fan Translator Teases Reveal At June Wholesome Direct
I think I speak for everyone when I say that the community, no, the world, are hoping this is "Dream C Club: Host girls on stage - Complete edition"
Re: Netflix Users Can Now Grab Street Fighter IV Champion Edition As Part Of Their Subscription
Probably the worst version of Street Fighter ever made.
That includes the ZX Spectrum version.
Re: 34 Years Ago, Nintendo Begged Fans Not To "Risk" Importing SNES Consoles From Japan
To be fair, I once blew up a Japanese PS2 by plugging it into the mains (UK) but forgetting to use the step down power converter
Re: Playdate's Getting A Vampire Survivors-Inspired Game From The Makers Of FTL And Into The Breach
Didn’t realise this was still a thing
Re: "The Best Version Of WipEout To Date" Is Now Available On Sega Dreamcast
This is brilliant.
Please do Wipeout 2097 next!
Re: Street Fighter Creator Dishes On The Series's Origins In Newly Translated Interview
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X_tgXcXOCYc - I'm certain people watch my videos for inspiration on what to do next!
Re: Namco's 'Ridge Racer' Is Coming To Nintendo Switch 2 At Launch
My god I hope this gets a PS5 release
Re: You Can Now Play Namco's Controversial Cancelled PS3 Remake 'Dancing Eyes'
@XeROOFALL
I'll give this a go, cheers you legend!
Re: All Yakuza / Like A Dragon Sega Minigames
Damien, Print club is not a fictional game!
https://segaretro.org/Print_Club
Re: You Can Now Play Namco's Controversial Cancelled PS3 Remake 'Dancing Eyes'
@jamess If you manage to get it working on a normal CEX PS3 with CFW, let me know!
Re: You Can Now Play Namco's Controversial Cancelled PS3 Remake 'Dancing Eyes'
I have a jailbroken PS3; downloading this tonight!
Re: Square Enix Staff Discover Cache Of Pristine Retro Games, Some Of Which Date Back 30 Years
Copies of Hard Drivin'?
Most disappointing retro find this century!
Re: Company Behind The X68000 Z Range Wants To Know If Global Players Will Buy Them
No thanks.
Back in the day the X68000 had fantasic arcade conversions and some brilliant Japanese text heavy games.
But now, the conversions are pointless because of MAME and unless they are going to provide translation patched games then the whole thing is pointless.