Very late to the party here but this topic came up on a discussion on YT recently.
The point was made here it was unlikely that Sega themselves would of been the ones coding any of the potential Sega titles on the Jaguar.
Given how dire the situation was with Atari and it's third party support..
Rebellion overstretched and working on titles such as Legions Of The Undead, planned for Jaguar, Jaguar CD, PC and PlayStation.. ATD stuck with contractual obligations to finish Battlemorph... Probe Software who'd started on Mortal Kombat 3 for Jaguar. Beyond who were in the process of pitching for the contract for AVP II Jeff Minter lined up to do Major Havoc 2000..
I shudder to think of Sega IP being given to Tiertex or worse still, Imagitec Design who took a 60 fps MD title and reduced it to 30 fps on Jaguar.. Pitfall:Mayan Adventure.
Probably THE game at the time that convinced me getting a PlayStation 3 had been the wise choice, i loved this game so, so much.
Whilst i enjoyed all the Dark Souls games and their DLC, Sekiro did nothing for me, Elden Ring was a huge dissapointment, but i stuck with it and completed it.
Demon's Souls and Bloodborne remain my all time Favourite From Software games of their generations.
The article doesn't mention if anything else was taken, but looking at the physical size and weight of such a collection, this doesn't sound like the work of some random, opportunist buglarly.
It makes me suspect someone knew exactly what was in the house, when the occupant would be away and made preparations to remove everything they could and had a buyer or buyers already lined up.
Even if this wasn't the case, it's just heartbreaking to read such a story, especially with the sentimental aspect attached with it.
@Sketcz The problem with a few of the bigger names in the industry these days (and i will happily name Mark Cale, Jez San, Jason Kingsley, R. J Mical for starters, even the late Archer Maclean was guilty of it), is when they do speak, they give you a version of events that is completely at odds with what they'd told people in earlier interviews.
Jez San gives different accounts of how they became SNES developers..lies about failed formats they were developing for...Kingsley how they landed Atari Jaguar development work, RJ Mical talks of Amiga meetings he wasn't present at, contridicts Lynx hardware manuals, Archer has given multiple different accounts of how International Karate came about, which was the lead platform..
They'll take credit for games they never touched, concepts they never came up with etc and they rarely if at all get challenged.
They'll blame others for reasons games got canned, studios went under, rather than admit their previous company went bankrupt, staff went unpaid and the next company followed suit.
I used to love reading Making Of features, listening to and reading developer interviews, but over the years, what you could excuse for understandable hazy memories, has been replaced by cynicism and you reach the point where you want Karl Pilkington's ***** Man to stop them talking in their tracks.
As for the YT channels not giving credit/repeating industry urban myths..
If you dare post a comment, you'll find your comment deleted and you banned from the channel. They won't name sources as they know it risks someone putting their claims to the sources mentioned and discovering what was really said.. or admit they use script writers..
@Slider1983:Nobody is trying to be correct as you put it and putting hours in on the same game across 3 different format doesn't make anyone ignorant of anything, it just means it wasn't for them.
This was supposed to be getting a full fan remake for the Jaguar and Dreamcast some years ago, the old Epyx name trying to make a comeback, but that went nowhere, so nice to hear some more positive Atari Barbarian news.
GTW did try and reach out to the coder from Probe who was working on Jaguar MK3 (converted from the Playstation versions code) but never got a response, so to see the original MK running on Jaguar is just wonderful.
It wasn't intended to be ignorant, i grew up on a mix of home micros and consoles, before going console only (Sinclair ZX81, Atari 2600 and 800XL, 520STFM, Commodore 64) and witnessed, especially in the ST era, a lot of developers trying to mimic what was popular on console and in the Arcades.
Looking at someone like Thalion, incredibly talented, pushed hardware to the very maximum, but their takes on the likes of Ghosts 'n' Goblins, Alien Syndrome, Dragon Spirt etc fell short, gameplay wise of what they were copying.
With Viking Child, Imagitec Design were attempting to mimic Super Wonderboy and again, it fell short.
Some months ago i had the great pleasure of playing Turrican 1 and 2 again, this time on the Playstation 4,but found myself suffering from strict time limits, getting lost within levels..
As a Dreamcast owner, i tried so hard to get into Shadowman, but again the level design was such there were far too many times i found myself wondering where an earth i was supposed to be going.
But there were times i found people did the homages really well, i am a huge fan of The Bitmap Bros game Gods, loved it on ST and again on MD, i will still return to it today, where as Black Tiger i rarely touch.
Around the ST era, I found you really needed a micro and a console, so i ended up buying a Sega Game Gear and later moved onto the MD as there were genres each did so well and if you loved gaming, you didn't want to miss out.
The problem with something like Centipede is Atari, when reinventing the back story for the home versions, didn't even stick to 1 character. You had Oliver The Elf and his spark firing magic wand on the 2600 version for example, but Lord Motley Bugnuts for the Atari 400/800 version.
If your going to use the flimsy back stories for the basis of a film adaptation, which do you go for?
๐ I should make clear i have given Robocod multiple opportunities to 'click' with my tastes in gaming.
I picked it up second hand on the MD originally, returned to it on PlayStation, again picking it up second hand and finally buying it new on PS3 from the PSN store.
It just never worked for me, but it was given a fair crack.
@slider1983:I was never really a fan of any developer trying to replicate on the home micros at time, what the consoles were doing so well and would of much rather they devoted their resources to making original games instead.
Titles like:Magic Pockets, Viking Child, Zool, Robocod immediately spring to mind, but there were countless others.
They've annouced films based on Atari I. P's a couple of times before and they grabbed headlines for a stage, films never went anywhere, people forgot about it, now here we are once again, if even 50% of the titles get the film treatment, I will be very surprised.
The current Atari reminds me an awful lot of the Tramiel era Atari i grew up with, announcements coming thick and fast in an attempt to grab headlines, maintain a presence etc.
Which is fine as long as the finished products appear and live upto expectations.
The running joke with Tramiel Atari was why buy an Atari product today, when they will only annouce a newer, more powerful one, tommorrow.
@Guru_Larry they did far more than just redesign the levels.
They also removed McVitie's Penguin biscuit branding, replaced character rescue objectives (rescuing elves instead of penguins), and omitted hidden bonus levels
Mark Cale has a proven history of fabricating stories, telling Retrogamer Magazine ST Myth was finished and released, when he knows only too well it wasn't and why it wasn't.
The company tried bringing back Myth and The Last Ninja on the Playstation and failed, now we are being offered up awful Euro trash platforming...
A great addition to the Jaguar's Libary, but whilst technically impressive on the ST, i personally found it suffered the same issues many Thalion games did, they tried to replicate their favourite arcade titles, in this case Dragon Spirt, pushed the host hardware to the max, but the gameplay sadly fell a little short of what it was trying to replicate.
An absolutely amazing time to be just an observer looking in at Homebrew development. Tomb Raider and Mario 64 on 3DO, Unreal on Saturn and now NFS on Jaguar, even if it's only a proof of concept engine.
Jag Racer is shaping up to be exactly the type of title the hardware so badly needed at the time.
They weren't rumours. John Carmack had begun coding Lynx Wolfenstien, but the Tramiel's were late with their first milestone payment to him, so he stopped all work.
I genuinely don't know why people like Larry continue to spread the nonsense about F. B not being paid. F. B has repeatedly spoken of what happened during the games developnent:
"I did work on it for about 19 months, without any interruption. When the game was presented to the press for the first time, the graphics weren't done as well as the motion. Unfortunately, the marketing department gave to the press a set of cartridges with the sentence 'for review only' instead of 'for preview only'. All you have heard from there was coming from this mistake. It is very depressing to have your work screwed like this, but I wasn't able to do anything at this time. To cover their mistake, they told the press that the game was going to be rejected and revamped, when actually the game was just following its normal development schedule."
And:
" When the company starting to lay off people, while trying to find a suitor, the game was not finished. It was not far off but would have needed a few more months to be even better. I was able to negotiate a couple of months (after being laid off myself) to finalize what was finazable. I could have used five, but thatโs all I could get. We would have needed that extra time to QA the game a little better, and polish a lot of the things that were still a bit too bare. But at that time, it was either that, or not having the game. Some things got cut, just because of lack of time or resources."
As for Sega looking to sue Atari, that's pure chinese whispers here, why wouldn't they also go after Argonaut for FX Fighter if they were that concerned?
Comments 29
Re: Flashback: The Atari Jaguar Almost Got Shinobi, Streets Of Rage, Wonder Boy And Other Sega Classics
Very late to the party here but this topic came up on a discussion on YT recently.
The point was made here it was unlikely that Sega themselves would of been the ones coding any of the potential Sega titles on the Jaguar.
Given how dire the situation was with Atari and it's third party support..
Rebellion overstretched and working on titles such as Legions Of The Undead, planned for Jaguar, Jaguar CD, PC and PlayStation..
ATD stuck with contractual obligations to finish Battlemorph...
Probe Software who'd started on Mortal Kombat 3 for Jaguar.
Beyond who were in the process of pitching for the contract for AVP II
Jeff Minter lined up to do Major Havoc 2000..
I shudder to think of Sega IP being given to Tiertex or worse still, Imagitec Design who took a 60 fps MD title and reduced it to 30 fps on Jaguar.. Pitfall:Mayan Adventure.
Re: Peter Cullen, The Voice Of Optimus Prime And Mario, Has Died Aged 85
An awful week for news, Parton, Curry and now this.
Very sad news indeed.
Re: "I Hope They Choke On An AI-Generated Fishbone" - James Pond Creator On System 3's "Soulless" Legacy Collection
Good old Chris Sorrell โ He's never been one to hold back.
Re: Shuhei Yoshida Thinks It Was "Actually A Good Thing" Sony Didn't Publish Dark Souls
Probably THE game at the time that convinced me getting a PlayStation 3 had been the wise choice, i loved this game so, so much.
Whilst i enjoyed all the Dark Souls games and their DLC, Sekiro did nothing for me, Elden Ring was a huge dissapointment, but i stuck with it and completed it.
Demon's Souls and Bloodborne remain my all time Favourite From Software games of their generations.
Re: After Versions For Amiga & Atari ST, Head Over Heels' Sequel Set Its Sights On The Atari Jaguar
Colin Porch is one of the nicest people within the industry i have ever had the pleasure of talking with.
The more people who get to experience his work, the better..
Re: "I Don't Think I'll Collect Another Thing Again" - Prized NES Collection Of Over 860+ NES Games Stolen In Heartbreaking Burglary
Just awful news.
The article doesn't mention if anything else was taken, but looking at the physical size and weight of such a collection, this doesn't sound like the work of some random, opportunist buglarly.
It makes me suspect someone knew exactly what was in the house, when the occupant would be away and made preparations to remove everything they could and had a buyer or buyers already lined up.
Even if this wasn't the case, it's just heartbreaking to read such a story, especially with the sentimental aspect attached with it.
Re: Book Review: The Bitmap Brothers: Universe
One of the best game books i ever bought, simply superb
Re: The Arcade 1971โ1999 Is Aiming To Be "The Definitive Text On The First 30 Years Of The Arcade Industry"
@Sketcz The problem with a few of the bigger names in the industry these days (and i will happily name Mark Cale, Jez San, Jason Kingsley, R. J Mical for starters, even the late Archer Maclean was guilty of it), is when they do speak, they give you a version of events that is completely at odds with what they'd told people in earlier interviews.
Jez San gives different accounts of how they became SNES developers..lies about failed formats they were developing for...Kingsley how they landed Atari Jaguar development work, RJ Mical talks of Amiga meetings he wasn't present at, contridicts Lynx hardware manuals, Archer has given multiple different accounts of how International Karate came about, which was the lead platform..
They'll take credit for games they never touched, concepts they never came up with etc and they rarely if at all get challenged.
They'll blame others for reasons games got canned, studios went under, rather than admit their previous company went bankrupt, staff went unpaid and the next company followed suit.
I used to love reading Making Of features, listening to and reading developer interviews, but over the years, what you could excuse for understandable hazy memories, has been replaced by cynicism and you reach the point where you want Karl Pilkington's ***** Man to stop them talking in their tracks.
As for the YT channels not giving credit/repeating industry urban myths..
If you dare post a comment, you'll find your comment deleted and you banned from the channel. They won't name sources as they know it risks someone putting their claims to the sources mentioned and discovering what was really said.. or admit they use script writers..
Re: The Arcade 1971โ1999 Is Aiming To Be "The Definitive Text On The First 30 Years Of The Arcade Industry"
Great to see the involvement of Frank Gasking along with some very familiar Retrogamer magazine writers.
Re: Alien Breed Is Getting A 35th Anniversary Collection, And Its Publisher Couldn't Be More Apt
When i was a PS4 Gamer, people were screaming for newer, more powerful hardware, as the then current hardware was holding game development back.
Now, having gotten out of gaming, all i see announcement wise, is these Anniversary Collections..
Is this really where gaming is heading?
Re: "Who Are They Kidding?" - System 3 Insists No GenAI Was Used In James Pond Legacy, But Fans Aren't Convinced
@Slider1983:Nobody is trying to be correct as you put it and putting hours in on the same game across 3 different format doesn't make anyone ignorant of anything, it just means it wasn't for them.
Re: The Massively Controversial Barbarian Is Getting A New Fan-Made Port For Atari Computers
This was supposed to be getting a full fan remake for the Jaguar and Dreamcast some years ago, the old Epyx name trying to make a comeback, but that went nowhere, so nice to hear some more positive Atari Barbarian news.
Re: The Developer Behind Mortal Kombat's Fanmade Jaguar Port Sets Sights On The Sequel
Absolutely fantastic work.
GTW did try and reach out to the coder from Probe who was working on Jaguar MK3 (converted from the Playstation versions code) but never got a response, so to see the original MK running on Jaguar is just wonderful.
Re: After Almost 45 Years, Someone Is Making The Definitive Version Of Zaxxon For The Atari 2600
Absolutely stunning work.
Re: Mr. Nutz Is The Next 16-Bit Character To Get A Physical Resurrection On SNES And Genesis
Ocean France were a really talented studio, i really wish Ocean UK had given them more Arcade Conversion work back in the day.
Never tried this during my time as a MD and SNES owner, as both platforms were really spoilt for choice when it came to games in this genre.
Re: "Who Are They Kidding?" - System 3 Insists No GenAI Was Used In James Pond Legacy, But Fans Aren't Convinced
It wasn't intended to be ignorant, i grew up on a mix of home micros and consoles, before going console only (Sinclair ZX81, Atari 2600 and 800XL, 520STFM, Commodore 64) and witnessed, especially in the ST era, a lot of developers trying to mimic what was popular on console and in the Arcades.
Looking at someone like Thalion, incredibly talented, pushed hardware to the very maximum, but their takes on the likes of Ghosts 'n' Goblins, Alien Syndrome, Dragon Spirt etc fell short, gameplay wise of what they were copying.
With Viking Child, Imagitec Design were attempting to mimic Super Wonderboy and again, it fell short.
Some months ago i had the great pleasure of playing Turrican 1 and 2 again, this time on the Playstation 4,but found myself suffering from strict time limits, getting lost within levels..
As a Dreamcast owner, i tried so hard to get into Shadowman, but again the level design was such there were far too many times i found myself wondering where an earth i was supposed to be going.
But there were times i found people did the homages really well, i am a huge fan of The Bitmap Bros game Gods, loved it on ST and again on MD, i will still return to it today, where as Black Tiger i rarely touch.
Around the ST era, I found you really needed a micro and a console, so i ended up buying a Sega Game Gear and later moved onto the MD as there were genres each did so well and if you loved gaming, you didn't want to miss out.
It was an expensive, but rewarding experience.
Re: "One Of The Biggest Announcements We've Ever Made" - Atari Says Something "Big" Is Coming
The problem with something like Centipede is Atari, when reinventing the back story for the home versions, didn't even stick to 1 character. You had Oliver The Elf and his spark firing magic wand on the 2600 version for example, but Lord Motley Bugnuts for the Atari 400/800 version.
If your going to use the flimsy back stories for the basis of a film adaptation, which do you go for?
Re: "Who Are They Kidding?" - System 3 Insists No GenAI Was Used In James Pond Legacy, But Fans Aren't Convinced
๐ I should make clear i have given Robocod multiple opportunities to 'click' with my tastes in gaming.
I picked it up second hand on the MD originally, returned to it on PlayStation, again picking it up second hand and finally buying it new on PS3 from the PSN store.
It just never worked for me, but it was given a fair crack.
Re: "Who Are They Kidding?" - System 3 Insists No GenAI Was Used In James Pond Legacy, But Fans Aren't Convinced
@slider1983:I was never really a fan of any developer trying to replicate on the home micros at time, what the consoles were doing so well and would of much rather they devoted their resources to making original games instead.
Titles like:Magic Pockets, Viking Child, Zool, Robocod immediately spring to mind, but there were countless others.
Re: Atari Signs Deal To Turn 10 Of Its Classic Games Into Movies, And It's Got Some People Scratching Their Heads
They've annouced films based on Atari I. P's a couple of times before and they grabbed headlines for a stage, films never went anywhere, people forgot about it, now here we are once again, if even 50% of the titles get the film treatment, I will be very surprised.
Re: "One Of The Biggest Announcements We've Ever Made" - Atari Says Something "Big" Is Coming
The current Atari reminds me an awful lot of the Tramiel era Atari i grew up with, announcements coming thick and fast in an attempt to grab headlines, maintain a presence etc.
Which is fine as long as the finished products appear and live upto expectations.
The running joke with Tramiel Atari was why buy an Atari product today, when they will only annouce a newer, more powerful one, tommorrow.
Re: "Who Are They Kidding?" - System 3 Insists No GenAI Was Used In James Pond Legacy, But Fans Aren't Convinced
@Guru_Larry they did far more than just redesign the levels.
They also removed McVitie's Penguin biscuit branding, replaced character rescue objectives (rescuing elves instead of penguins), and omitted hidden bonus levels
Re: "Who Are They Kidding?" - System 3 Insists No GenAI Was Used In James Pond Legacy, But Fans Aren't Convinced
Mark Cale has a proven history of fabricating stories, telling Retrogamer Magazine ST Myth was finished and released, when he knows only too well it wasn't and why it wasn't.
The company tried bringing back Myth and The Last Ninja on the Playstation and failed, now we are being offered up awful Euro trash platforming...
Re: Atari ST Shoot 'Em Up 'Wings Of Death' Is Getting A Jaguar Port, And Pre-Orders Are Open Now
A great addition to the Jaguar's Libary, but whilst technically impressive on the ST, i personally found it suffered the same issues many Thalion games did, they tried to replicate their favourite arcade titles, in this case Dragon Spirt, pushed the host hardware to the max, but the gameplay sadly fell a little short of what it was trying to replicate.
Re: "This Is Real Progress" - Super Mario 64's 3DO Version Is Already Looking Significantly Less Cursed, Just One Week Later
Once again, the Homebrew community astounds me. Fantastic work.
Re: "The Original 3DO Programmers Deserve Serious Kudos" - This "Experiment" Is Bringing A Classic EA Racer To The Atari Jaguar
An absolutely amazing time to be just an observer looking in at Homebrew development. Tomb Raider and Mario 64 on 3DO, Unreal on Saturn and now NFS on Jaguar, even if it's only a proof of concept engine.
Jag Racer is shaping up to be exactly the type of title the hardware so badly needed at the time.
Re: 34 Years Later, Wolfenstein 3D Just Got "One Hell Of An Impressive Port" For The Atari Lynx
They weren't rumours. John Carmack had begun coding Lynx Wolfenstien, but the Tramiel's were late with their first milestone payment to him, so he stopped all work.
Re: Sega Almost Sued Atari Over A Terrible Virtua Fighter Clone But Decided It Would Be "Embarrassing"
I genuinely don't know why people like Larry continue to spread the nonsense about F. B not being paid. F. B has repeatedly spoken of what happened during the games developnent:
"I did work on it for about 19 months,
without any interruption. When the game was presented to the press
for the first time, the graphics weren't done as well as the motion.
Unfortunately, the marketing department gave to the press a set of
cartridges with the sentence 'for review only' instead of 'for preview
only'. All you have heard from there was coming from this mistake. It
is very depressing to have your work screwed like this, but I wasn't
able to do anything at this time. To cover their mistake, they told
the press that the game was going to be rejected and revamped, when
actually the game was just following its normal development schedule."
And:
" When the company starting to lay off people, while trying to find a suitor, the game was not finished. It was not far off but would have needed a few more months to be even better. I was able to negotiate a couple of months (after being laid off myself) to finalize what was finazable. I could have used five, but thatโs all I could get. We would have needed that extra time to QA the game a little better, and polish a lot of the things that were still a bit too bare. But at that time, it was either that, or not having the game. Some things got cut, just because of lack of time or resources."
As for Sega looking to sue Atari, that's pure chinese whispers here, why wouldn't they also go after Argonaut for FX Fighter if they were that concerned?
Re: Retro Gamer's Nick Thorpe Has Passed Away
My heartfelt condolences to his friends and family.
A talented writer, sadly taken from us at far too young an age.