
We've seen a sudden outburst of affection for classic fighting games recently, helped in no small part by Capcom's efforts to revive its '90s titles for a new audience.
You'd assume there would be just as much demand for a collection related to Namco's legendary Tekken series, but franchise director Katsuhiro Harada has poured cold water on such hopes.
Speaking to the TheGamer alongside designer Michael Murray, Harada says he doesn't think there's the same kind of desire for old 3D fighting games as there is for 2D ones:
It's different for [2D] fighting games because 3D fighting game players tend to play the latest installment. Starting from early on, it was polygon character models that really pushed the edge of graphics at the time. So when you see it later on, it doesn't look nearly as impressive as it used to. 2D fighting games, because they were just sprite characters and stuff, they don't seem to age graphically that much. And that's not the main reason people played it in the first place.
Murray does give a little more hope but is still sceptical that older Tekken games would be much fun to play today:
If it's a drastically different gameplay change, like a Tag 2 compared to 7 or 8, maybe that's something I would probably pick up and play for a little bit. Or maybe the Tekken Force mode or Devil Within or something like that. But I wouldn't even see myself picking up Tekken 3 and playing against friends for an extended period of time. So yeah, there is a difference we feel between the 3D fighters and 2D fighters in that respect.
What do you think? Do 3D fighting games really age worse than 2D ones? Would you be willing to pay good money for a collection of classic Tekken titles? Let us know with a comment below.
Would you like to see a Tekken Classic Collection? (540 votes)
- Yes
- No
- I don't really care
[source thegamer.com]
Comments 32
I completely disagree with him here, I think many of the early 3D fighting games still look fantastic and in some ways more visually appealing then modern ones can look as they clutter the screen with effects. The early Tekken games still look nice, as does Virtua Fighter 2 and Dead or Alive 2 is another looker.
If anything I actually play these earlier games more as I find them more enjoyable to play
The Tekken games are not like battle arena Toshinden which are all flash and no substance.
The early Tekkens still hold up.
The weakest of the lot is Tekken 1
But the others have aged pretty well, and are a product of their time.
Not all the 2D games are golden either
Street Fighter 1 is a turd
And SF II has so many versions its hard to pick one ( Turbo always Turbo)
The first 2 Tekken games are really simplistic and lack depth, it's not until Tekken 3/Tekken Tag that things get rerally interesting, espeically with parries and side steps. T4 is the black sheep of the family but by no means bad. A lot of fans agree the game peaked around T5/6 but they made for boring tournament games which is why Namco evolved the franchise with the more crowd friendly T7/8.
Similar applies to Virtua Fighter.
Hell, even the first Street Fighter is a load of crap that no one plays seriously so its not just 2d games that have early entries that havent aged well.
Most importantly is that Namco dont believe a collection would sell very well to be worthwhile, otherwise they'd release one. I'm inclined to agree with them tbh.
i couldn't care less about a single new 3d fighting game but id care a whole lot for a Tekken trilogy collection ❤️ ditto virtua fighter and soul edge/blade/Calibur.
@845H one person's "simplistic" is another's "fun/accessible/action-oriented/direct/etc." ✌️ for me the series peaked with two and three.
I would buy a TK collection in a heartbeat.
btw it's absolutely grotesque to me that so many people including in the industry think that games only got good starting in the ps3 era. 😵
I think it's somewhat subjective saying that early, low-poly models look bad; like with earlier, pre 16-bit sprites there is definitely a charm in seeing how developers worked with the limitations of the tech at the time
For the most part, I disagree with Harada: Seeing where the series came from visually is fascinating. The old entries are beautiful because they're trying their dangdest on very limited hardware, and I would leap at the opportunity to see them in higher resolution.
Fans still cite Tekken 3 as a favorite entry-- the mechanics were tuned to satisfaction and the PS1 version was stacked with fun extras.
Where I almost feel a Tekken collection is unnecessary, by contrast, is that there are points in the chronology where the series doesn't change that much, at least to a casual observer. I would make the argument for Capcom's upcoming collection that they pulled 3D fighting in so many different directions, it demands further study.
If anything, Harada shutting down the idea of a Tekken collection is a blow to companies releasing more of the 3D classics we love. And we do love them.
Any 3D game ages compared to classic 2D.
I would definitely buy a Tekken collection. I still have all my Tekken games discs from 1 up to 5 and 6 and 7 digitally. It's one reason I still have a PS2 and 3 hooked up. I know Tekken 4 I think it was had the previous Tekkens unlockable and could play them on that so that was sort of a collection there. Unfortunately the only way to play that now legally is with a PS2 or original PS3.
that would be amazing BUT what I really want is a Namco Racing Museum.
@PopetheRev28 Honestly, a loud freaking YES to this! Even without dedicated controls, I've been wanting to play so many racing games from my youth, and it's aggravating how they never get rereleased.
(Especially with couch multiplayer-- come tf on, Sega!)
“Nobody wants to see these old 3D games because they don’t look impressive”
Oh yeah like the games YALL make nowadays look like high art too and aren’t overly ugly gray rtx bloomfests that don’t even function properly 90% of the time💀😂
Give me a SoulCalibur 1-5 + SoulBlade/Edge collection and I'd be golden!
It's like he said, the only time I saw an actual sizeable amount of people not play the newest 3D game was with Bloody Roar 4, even the bad DOA6 still had some spotlight instead of people going back to 5.
Capcom's newest collection works because it collects vastly different games like rival schools and power stone.
I much prefer 3D fighters to 2D fighters, and it makes me a little sad that most 3D looking fighters today play like 2D games.
Yeah, I disagree with his statement too, haha.
I love Tekken 3, Namco managed to squeeze a huge amount into the regular PS1 compared to the upgraded PS1 hardware they used in the arcade version. I still enjoy playing it today.
The one weak spot of Tekken 3 was the Tekken Force mode, it just wasn’t very good. So Michael Murray citing that as the thing he’d want to play from Tekken 3 doesn’t inspire much confidence in his ideas of what makes a good Tekken game.
It sort of reminds me of Jim Ryan’s infamous “why would anybody play this?” quote.
I adore 2D and 3D fighting games. A Tekken collection fully upscaled to 4K would be amazing. Just look how amazing Virtua Racing looked, taking simple polygons and upscaling. Same should be true with the Tekken games.
@carlos82
iirc didnt a few of them (iirc tekken 3 and tobal 2 are a couple) end up running at 60fps which during the early era of 3d is very impressive and imo still looks and feels nice.
They obviously have a charm to them because people have been making games looking like the PS1 so there has to be some appreciation for the old look.
@Mgalens Yeah, a whole bunch of those old PS1/Saturn fighters ran at 60fps and 480i, and usually had nice-looking character models as well (as long as the camera didn't get too close!), making them age way better than most games from back then.
@smoreon You're bang-on. Dead or Alive on the Saturn is stunning, still. As is Tobal 2 on the PS1.
I would absolutely like to play the classics again. I started playing Tekken 1 on the PS1 but it wasn't until Tekken 3 I really got into the series.
@MikeP I LOVE Ridge Racer and My PS2 isn't going to read discs forever. Gonna need an official way to play these games.
@MikeP
I would like to point out that the PS1 hardware is extremely limited now.
But back in the 90's it was cutting edge.
@PinballBuzzbro
Or aren't broken up in to predatory DLC and micro Transactions.
And don't need 60 gig day one patches to even boot
Nope not at all.
@PopetheRev28
Rip your discs with IMGBURN and use an emulator.
I play my ps1 games via Duckstation instead of actual hardware.
I like the games but not the 30 year old limitations that come with with the hardware
IE: read errors
Corrupt or unreadable memory cards.
Fixed save points.
Manky controllers.
CD drives that do bog all.
Damaged discs.
Region lock outs.
Ridge Racer Type 4 looks fantastic on Duckstation, and plays equally fantastic with a Xbox One controller.
@KitsuneNight Agree SF1 is horrible & yh tekken 1 is the worst of the early tekken games but still good even today (although as a kid I didn't like it when I played it in tekken 5). As for Battle arena toshinden games they have cool character designs & great music but the 3D games are 💩 while the 2D gameboy game is one of the most underrated games ever imo
I'd absolutely love a re release of the classic tekken games with online play. Namco already released them again almost 20 yeara ago as part of the arcade history mode in tekken 5 on ps2.
A good 3d fighter holds up well in terms of gameplay no problem, classic tekken ,virtua fighter & dead or alive games from 19993-2000 are still fun, even underrated games like goiken muyou 2 on ps1 (made by ex virtua fighter devs , 1st game on the saturn)holds up incredibly well 🙂
@KitsuneNight After playing on emulators like Duckstation, I can't go back to the original hardware- at least not for lengthy playthroughs.
The graphics are so much cleaner*, loading times are basically a non-issue, and a good handful of games can be boosted to 60fps with few or no issues.
*Some people consider this a drawback, but it is optional! While I agree that PS1 doesn't benefit from HD as much as GameCube does, I still think the increased clarity is a benefit overall. The close-up objects are always going to look bad, regardless, but the distant details really pop in HD, instead of disappearing into a mess of pixel soup.
@Tasuki
Thats Tekken 5.
It comes with the full arcade versions of Tekken 1 2 and 3.
Which shows how bare bones an Arcade game is compared to the home ports
Even the ps1 version of Tekken 1 has more going for it.
While ps1 Tekken 2 and 3 are absolutely stuffed to the gills with extra's modes and features.
PS 2 Tekken 5 is still cool to have though.
@smoreon
Yeah the improved graphics on Duckstation are a huge plus as well.
The graphics look cleaner the draw distance is improved .
The graphics are less pixelated and jagged.
Its a showcase of what the ps1 is capable off when not constrained.
While I don't really notice the difference between 30 and 60 FPS.
I do notice the drop in speed between 50 and 60 hertz.
And I cant play RR4 in 50 hertz mode anymore.
It's like playing in molasses.
@Badboykilla187
I honestly never knew Toshinden was on the GB.
I always figured that the series had no more then 4 entries on the PS1 and 2 ports to the Saturn.
(which are diabolical )
It's absolutely not true that 3D games lose their appeal fast as opposed to 2D bitmaps. Look at the resurgence in interest for Atari VCS / 2600 games, which have the most primitive graphics. I, for example, have been playing VIRTUA FIGHTER 2 for almost 30 yeras and it still looks good to me, especially the camera motion and the backgrounds.
And Tekken is loads of fun, especially in comparison to Mortal Kombat.
Leave A Comment
Hold on there, you need to login to post a comment...